Tithing Conferences

One more question:  There exists some real potential for unrighteousness dominion in the collection and disbursements of the tithes collected by the fellowships. Should there be some sort of provenance to call a tithing conference to oversee tithing?  

Should I ask a certain someone to get a revelation for the ekklesia on this matter?

Womens' Councils Final Exam

Let me preface this by saying I don’t think I’ve met any of the main participants in any of the councils, and I am certainly not familiar in the least with the daily walk of anyone involved.  I do not have knowledge of the facts of the case before the various councils.  With that in mind I write these hypothetical questions, which probably do not resemble the facts of the case. 

 

1. Suppose a shape-shifting extraterrestrial imitates my form and proceeds to engage in all manner of debauchery in my name. This debauchery is observed by 2 women in my fellowship and as I kneel to bless the sacrament with my fellowship, these two women intervene and say they are not comfortable with me blessing the sacrament and proceed to explain what they have witnessed. Other priesthood holders with valid certificates are present at the meeting. What should I do? Should I, having a valid priesthood certificate signed by 7 women in my fellowship including my wife, assert my rights and continue to bless the sacrament despite their objections?  Y     N

2. Suppose instead of two women being witnesses, the shape-shifting extraterrestrial’s debauchery in my name is recorded on video for the whole world to see. A women’s council is convened, and it is unanimously decided that my priesthood certificate should be removed.  I know I am innocent of the charges, but I cannot convince others that I am.  What should I do?  Should I continue to argue for my innocence and my right to perform ordinances?  Y     N

3. Now let’s change the previous example such that in the women’s council 9 of the 12 women are very good at receiving revelation and they receive the knowledge that it was an imposter doing these things in my name – the women’s council correctly rules that I am not guilty.  However, 3 of the women do not receive the revelation and, having seen the video, they are visibly uncomfortable in their body language with me performing ordinances, but they aren’t making any verbal objections, wanting to keep peace and respect the outcome of the council. Other priesthood holders with valid certificates are present at the meeting. What should I do?  Should I bless the sacrament? Y     N

4. Does your answer to the previous question change if the 3 women are vocal in their objections? Y     N

5. Same as previous example, but 12 of 12 women in the council receive the revelation that I am innocent. However, 2 good men who have valid priesthood certificates are present in the fellowship meeting have not received the revelation and, having seen the video, they are visibly uncomfortable in their body language with me performing ordinances, but they aren’t making any verbal objections, wanting to keep peace and respect the outcome of the council. What should I do?  Does the answer change if the ones uncomfortable are men? Should I bless the sacrament? Y     N

 

Moving on from extraterrestrial shapeshifters…

6. Consider an instance in which a women’s council exercises unrighteous dominion: Suppose that 12 women in my fellowship observe me wearing a New York Yankees cap. There is no scriptural commandment restricting this type of belief, but they decide unanimously that since their favorite blogger roots for Boston, my priesthood certificate should be removed.  My wife was out of the country for business during the council and did not participate. I plead my case and appeal to scriptures and note that the blogger has never cast aspersions on the worthiness of Yankee fans, but they are adamant: no worthy priesthood holder can root for the Yankees.  They cannot listen to persuasion.  What should I do? Should I baptize a fellowship member despite their unrighteous objections? Y     N

7. Can I tell my friend “How about, just for today, we form a fellowship consisting of me, you, and our wives, the ladies sign a certificate for me, and I go baptize you?” Y     N

8. Should I call up the blogger to voice my objections and ask him to persuade the 12 women to change their mind, or remove them from the covenant body if they persist in this unrighteousness dominion? Y     N

9. If the blogger blocked my number years ago after I incessantly called him at 3am to ask him to give a celebrity endorsement to my new brand of bedding called "Second Comforters," should I call up the blogger's wife instead to voice my objections and ask her to settle the matter?  Y     N

10. Suppose that a women’s council consisting of 12 covenant-taking women who I have never met from a fellowship I do not belong to call themselves “the ninth circuit women’s council” and, having seen 365 photos from 365 consecutive days of me walking my dog while wearing a Yankees cap, unanimously request that I give surrender my priesthood certificate to them. Should I baptize a fellowship member despite their unrighteous objections? Y     N

 

In all the above examples, the stakes are low, as “Aaronic priesthood is durable” and the ordinances seem to be valid regardless of the worthiness of the priesthood holder.

11. Now let’s raise the stakes a bit – suppose that as a condition of for the return of Zion, some sort of prayer must be performed to invite Enoch and his friends to return.  And suppose that this prayer requires at least 8 couples to arrange themselves in a prayer circle, and it is well known that for this order of prayer to be effective, all the individuals in the circle must have the best of feelings toward each other.  On this blessed day, my wife and I and 8 couples are invited to perform the ceremony, so it is possible to lose one couple and still complete the invitation.  Many decades ago, I had treated one woman in the circle (not my wife) very cruelly when we were both young children.  I feel awful about what I had done as a young boy, and while I have apologized profusely many times, I can tell that the woman has just never been comfortable around me—she still, after so many years, can be cordial with me but will never look me in the eyes.  Everyone present has been waiting and working for over ten years (and possibly ten million years) for this moment, but one of us has to step out of the circle to send out the invitation.  Should I step out of the circle instead of trying to convince her that she should leave?  After all, she’s the one with the bad feelings. Y     N

12. If your answer to the previous question was N: My efforts to persuade her to leave the circle were not persuasive enough.  I could leave the circle, or try to persuade the other couples to ask her to leave. Should I leave the circle? Y     N 

 

 

A worthwhile modernization

 

"So hold up...even though it was translated before 1830, it was written in King James English?"

"Joe, you have to understand, these people fly to pieces like glass as soon as anything comes that is contrary to their traditions."

"But later on, they put up with harems?  Brigham Young has a bigger body count than even you do!"

"Joe, this new Book of Mormon, they're calling it the Covenant of Christ.  I'm telling you it's the most amazing thing ever.  Even stupid people like Kamala can understand it. But it hits right back at crooked Brigham.  It says 'I will have covenant people, says the Lord of Hosts, and we all know Lord of Hosts means he's a great general, a real Robert E. Lee type, and they will hearken to this commandment to only have one wife.' "

Sorry, guys

I think this is on me.  Evidently the heavens did not want to see any of our perineums, and took drastic measures to prevent it...

But seriously...Am I the only one who feels unusually disappointed?  And also feeling weird for feeling disappointed?  Is it about feeling like I've missed out on something important, hoping for a break in the clouds at the last minute?  What was I hoping for?  

Maybe someone will come up with an amazing inspiring photo from western New York and find the literal silver lining.

I'm not a woman, but it almost has a miscarriage-like feel to it, a sense of loss where you know there are still other opportunities, and you don't know why it hurts so much.  

I feel like there's some meaning in it, but I also feel dumb for thinking there's some meaning to it.  Both at a macro level for whatever this movement is, but also at a micro personal level, as my home is also in today's zone of totality, and it is pretty close to where the eclipse conference took place. I thought about heading home from the conference early to watch the eclipse to beat the traffic, but didn't.

My house had clear skies and a perfect view of the entire eclipse.  Cue the Curb Your Enthusiasm music.

Why is this such a big deal to me? It doesn't make sense.

For those at today's conference, am I the only one?

Announcement: Eclipse Perineum Sunning Workshop

 To be led by Perineum Expert Dr. McKay Platt and Astro-Philosopher Bryan Lang:

I'm sure we're all wondering how to best harness the power of the upcoming solar eclipse to energize our spirits and bodies.  In this Monday Morning eclipse conference workshop we will discuss something that was part of the original religion of the Fathers, perineum sunning during a total solar eclipse.

The Book of Yasher-halal-hash-baz noted that Enoch himself was born during a total solar eclipse, as though the fiery portal itself opened up to enter this world in the same way he exited it.

Note: since a certain someone has only about 3 pictures of himself on the internet (mugshot included), chatGPT has not been trained on his face, and we will therefore be denied the opportunity to have an AI-generated photo of him absorbing these sacred rays on his fourth eye.

I Do Declare

 

https://denversnuffer.com/2022/09/september-23-25-conference/

Zion and the jab

I was reading the “build a house” parable today.  The group who wanted to haul the stone to the place had the much harder path than those who found the clay on site and made bricks.  

"Those who had compassion said, The master's house is finished. What need is there for further labor to carry stone for the house? Let us not waste the effort of our fellow servants who have labored hardest, and we will put the stones to good use."

The stone builders were in the wrong, but those who had compassion (and the master) found value in the labor of the stoners.

In the end the Master said that 

"all of you have labored to do as I have commanded, and proven your faithfulness."

--even though there was “a season of quarreling and disputing”

"I ask again, What have you learned? What ought you to have learned?

…But I say again, there was honor in the labor of others. Whereas I look upon the heart and see faithful service, many among you do not look at, nor see, nor value what I the Lord love in the hearts of my people. As I have said before, I say again, Love one another, labor willingly alongside each other….All who have been faithful are mine." (emphasis mine)

There are specific and general implications in this parable.  Perhaps one thing that we ought to have learned is that it seems that the master is very generous in accepting the genuine labor of the servants, even if it happens to be wrongheaded.  Perhaps the Lord isn't looking for a people who are right about everything all the time.

So let’s talk politics and covid and all that.  Those who believe that the vax is more bad than good probably have an obligation to warn their neighbor about it.  And those who believe the vax is more good than bad probably have an obligation to warn their neighbor about it. One group is more or less correct. Time will perhaps tell.

"Friendships have been and are being undermined because of conflicting opinions about this virus. A great deal of the basis for the current opinions are based upon rumors, suspicions, fears and outright lies. Both ill-informed social media and respected leaders have used this as a wedge issue to divide us. Why are we letting that happen? It is our choice to respond with fear and anger."

There is honor in both people’s labor, even if they see the world differently from you. If we cease to be able to labor willingly alongside each other, we may be in danger of not being considered faithful.

Baghdad & Babylon

 Five years ago Dave posted on his blog:

"The God of Heaven tells me all the world should pray that Baghdad does not fall." 

It seemed to me at the time that the issue at hand for Baghdad at the time was ISIS, who occupied territory near Baghdad. I said my prayers for Baghdad at the time, and while I can't definitively take credit for the downfall of ISIS, ISIS definitely seems to have been defeated.  Indeed, ISIS peaked in late 2014 and was already beginning to decline by the time Denver made this post in February 2015, with Iraqi forces retaking Tikrit (87 miles NW of Baghdad) on March 12, 2015.

But May 28, 2015 Dave followed up with another post, just after ISIS took control of Ramadi on May 17, 68 miles to the west of Baghdad:

"Days of distress are upon Baghdad and the days of their troubles are begun. Distress shall overtake them, for those who come shall have no pity."

This seems to indicate that Baghdad would fall, and that our prayers did not abate the Lord's ire.  However, ISIS has seemed to be the nation to fall, and Baghdad remains in the hands of the Iraqis. 

But the title of the Denver's February post is Babylon, not Baghdad.  And while Baghdad falls within the borders old Babylonian empire, I'm wondering if Baghdad actually means Babylon, as in 

"The God of Heaven tells me all the world should pray that Babylon does not fall." 

But then why would we pray that Babylon does not fall, when Babylon are the bad guys?  Shouldn't we be praying that Babylon does fall? Perhaps it depends on what replaces Babylon, and what happens between the fall of Babylon and the Lord's return in glory.  Much like what replaced Saddam Hussein in Baghdad wasn't necessarily an improvement over Saddam (even though he was a monster), the chaos that follows the fall of Babylon and its economic and political institutions might be even worse than Babylon if Zion is not ready for the fall of Babylon.  

If we take our parallels from the Book of Mormon, are the Gadianton robbers Babylon, or are they what comes after Babylon?  Or if the Gadiantons are Babylon, then what follows is the low point of 3 Nephi before the coming of the Lord--the fall of the government, the people dividing into tribes, and eventually, destruction.  The  Book of Mormon makes no specific mention of Babylon by name on the Large Plates of Nephi (only on the small plates).  

So if Baghdad means Babylon in Dave's first post, does the followup post fit Babylon rather than Baghdad?

"Days of distress are upon Babylon and the days of their troubles are begun. Distress shall overtake them, for those who come shall have no pity."

In 2019 I would have said no, but this year...well, all of Babylon's institutions seem to be crumbling.  I don't know who will win the 2020 US election, but I will predict with confidence that whoever loses this election will not see the outcome as legitimate.  

Interesting symbolism in the hosanna shout

We've had 5 proclamations now. Like them or not, the 1st 3 all had new information, and were not received with a hosanna shout.  The Living Christ proclamation received no hosanna shout.

The symbolism of 3 old men alone in a room shouting hosanna has some impressive symbolism. Will the last person to leave the church please turn out the lights?

via GIPHY

Given that the leaves were green in upstate NY, this was taped no later than September 2019.  This is the big thing they’ve been building up to even before the last conference. They're all out of ideas. They give us regurgitated slop and expect us to shout with joy.

There is actually some nice symbolism in Joseph opening the dispensation in a grove of barren trees

But the word hosanna--God save us-- is fitting: We can still look to God and not these jokers.

Joseph Smith said that “no unhallowed hand can stop the work from progressing” While I wouldn't claim that God sent a global pandemic just to own the morms,  It seems like corona has stopped the church's work from progressing.

Me seeing Nelson in the sacred grove:

via GIPHY

The Remnant is Lit

#LightTheRemnant

What does a society of prophets look like?

hey guys...I'm getting kinda nervous here...




Given that failure is definitely an option for us...

Are we deferring too much to Dave and in so being darkened in our minds?  A comment from Denver holds a lot of weight in deciding relatively inconsequential matters:

Some thoughts shared with me from a conversation Denver had with one of the committee members indicated that the chronological order of that particular talk (OUR DIVINE PARENTS) is not critical.

While I believe Dave has stood before the divine council, part of me wonders if we should not be ascribing special weight to his opinions in places where he is not claiming any revelation.

I don't say this to call out others for their deficiencies, I see this in myself.   We need a society of prophets, where no one says "Know ye the Lord?" but I am not a prophet.  And the reason why we all  defer to Denver is that we don't trust anyone else to be a prophet for us.

I think the solution isn't for me to be able to trust your revelations, or for you to trust my revelations.

Therefore, let every man stand or fall by himself, and not for another, or not trusting another. (RE Mark 5:17, LE JST Mark 9:44)

It is for us to each get our own revelations.  For every man to stand or fall by himself, and to allow his neighbor to stand or fall by himself. To have the law written on our hearts. (Romans 2:15).  For me to trust you to get revelations for you, and for you to trust me to get revelations for me.

A Common starling.  Not much to look at. 

But what would our society look like if we were all our own prophets?  We've never seen such a society, and the scriptures are scant on the issue.

It seems likely that we would be in each others' business a bit less, trusting that each can hear God's advice.  And for those who can't hear God's voice, that would be job one for that person.

But sometimes a covenant body needs to coordinate to accomplish something, like write a statement of principles or build a temple.

Murmuration of Starlings.  Beautiful. 

How on earth do we coordinate to build a temple?  If the temple is our bodies housing the Spirit of God, then the answer is well-known.  But if it's a physical building that a corporeal Jesus will visit, then there will need to be coordination among a body of believers.  But I suspect the command to build a temple will not come until the covenant body has the law written on each member's heart, where each of us (or enough of us) is led by the Spirit.  If a command to build a temple comes and we do not have the law written on our hearts, then it will end like Nauvoo.  If our hearts aren't right, none of this matters.  If our hearts were right, we could coordinate like starlings, with no one in charge but the Lord.  I think Dave is really tired of being the head guy in this movement.

Matters of governance such as which of Dave's quotes to include in our scriptures are only practice in learning to get along at this point.   Keep in mind that if the movement succeeds, we get Jesus and an unsealed Book of Mormon.  A hundred years from now, our yak leather bound set of remnant scriptures will either be replaced with white stones, or it will be kept in an Lamanite museum next to Brigham's walking cane and the conference center podium made from GBH's tree as a reminder of the hubris of failed dispensations.

None of this matters if we aren't individual prophets.  It just doesn't matter if we include words denoting that a loving Mother was behind the word of wisdom.

It just doesn't matter if we get the scripture project exactly perfect.

It just doesn't matter if we got the best Guide & Standard or not.

It just doesn't matter if Dave is a truer prophet than Russ.

It only matters that we each become the kind of people who can live in peace, because those are the people that the angels can gather to Zion.

Many of us (myself included) have forgotten why we got on this spiritual path in the first place.  It was because we each discovered that the keeper of the gate is the Holy One of Israel, and he employeth no servant there.  That we should follow no man.

But now we are in real danger of being The Church Of Denver, "but receiv[ing] not the gospel, neither the testimony of Jesus, neither the prophets, neither the everlasting covenant.”  Against Denver's wishes, ironically.

If we fail, let's at least fail differently from the LDS from which we came.